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Bernie
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 4:11 am Post subject: test

According to an electronics sales person, Windows allows for the disabling of Wi-Fi cards, which ensures that it draws no power. I suspect that as long as the card is inserted, there will always be some power, and the most sure way of eliminating power drainage is remove the card. Is the power difference between disabling and removing a card neglegible? What about the ease with which disabling can be done from Windows 2000? Is it a pain, or is there a system tray item to do this? Is there a difference in power consumption between cards for 802.11b and 802.11g? Or is the difference overshadowed by power differences between card models for the same standard, or between different manufacturers for the same standard? Thanks, Bernie

MCheu
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:31 am Post subject: Re: test

On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 18:11:27 -0500, Bernie <Urt@BunnyBuns.com> wrote:

Quote:

According to an electronics sales person, Windows allows for the disabling
of Wi-Fi cards, which ensures that it draws no power. I suspect that as
long as the card is inserted, there will always be some power, and the most
sure way of eliminating power drainage is remove the card.

Is the power difference between disabling and removing a card neglegible?
What about the ease with which disabling can be done from Windows 2000?
Is it a pain, or is there a system tray item to do this?

Is there a difference in power consumption between cards for 802.11b and
802.11g? Or is the difference overshadowed by power differences between
card models for the same standard, or between different manufacturers for
the same standard?

Thanks,

Bernie

With that stupid subject header, you're not likely to get many
replies. It's likely to get caught in a spam filter.

Anyways, you can easily tell that having the card inserted WILL suck
down power even when disabled. Just pull the card and touch it.
You'll find that a network PCMCIA card is pretty darned warm even if
it's disabled. If it were drawing no power at all, it might get some
warmth from the nearby components, but it definitely wouldn't be quite
THAT warm.

As for power consumption difference between 802.11b and 802.11g? I
don't know. You could have a look at the box specs. Some of them
list power consumption numbers on the box.
---------------------------------------------

MCheu

Jeff Liebermann
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 9:56 am Post subject: Re: test

On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 21:31:31 -0500, MCheu <mpcheu@yahoo.com> wrote:

Quote:

On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 18:11:27 -0500, Bernie <Urt@BunnyBuns.com> wrote:

According to an electronics sales person, Windows allows for the disabling
of Wi-Fi cards, which ensures that it draws no power. I suspect that as
long as the card is inserted, there will always be some power, and the most
sure way of eliminating power drainage is remove the card.

Is the power difference between disabling and removing a card neglegible?
What about the ease with which disabling can be done from Windows 2000?
Is it a pain, or is there a system tray item to do this?

Is there a difference in power consumption between cards for 802.11b and
802.11g? Or is the difference overshadowed by power differences between
card models for the same standard, or between different manufacturers for
the same standard?

Thanks,

Bernie

With that stupid subject header, you're not likely to get many
replies. It's likely to get caught in a spam filter.

Yep. I read articles based on the subject. The problem is that I
tend to get curious about useless subjects. Oh well.

Quote:

Anyways, you can easily tell that having the card inserted WILL suck
down power even when disabled. Just pull the card and touch it.
You'll find that a network PCMCIA card is pretty darned warm even if
it's disabled. If it were drawing no power at all, it might get some
warmth from the nearby components, but it definitely wouldn't be quite
THAT warm.

That would be very logical except of one problem. Most PCMCIA cards
are fairly close to the guts of the laptop and will get warmed by the
CPU and its friends. If you wanna do the test, also run it with the
card inserted but not making connection with the connector. This way,
it's inserted, but not powered. If it gets hot anyway, it must be
from the CPU heating, not from the card dissipating power.

Quote:

As for power consumption difference between 802.11b and 802.11g? I
don't know. You could have a look at the box specs. Some of them
list power consumption numbers on the box.

802.11b and 802.11g suck about the same power running on the same
card. The transmit time is the same with both modulation schemes.

Also see:
http://www.synack.net/wireless/consumption.html
which does some interesting tests on some older 5 volt cards.
Basically, the power save features does little or nothing for the
power savings. The 32 bit 3.3 volt CardBus cards, draw somewhat less
power. Also, the newer Broadcom and Atheros chipset draw quite a bit
less power.

Most PCMCIA and CardBus cards specify the power consumption in the
product data sheets. For example, the SMC2835W card:
http://www.smc.com/files/AN%5C2835WV3.pdf
specifies 480mA TX and 380mA RX at 3.3VDC or 1.58 watts TX and 1.25
watts RX. A few microwatts difference between modes isn't going to be
noticeable.

The tri-mode cards vary in power somewhat due to added circuitry. The
latest Proxim Orinoco mutation card at:
http://www.proxim.com/learn/library/datasheets/11abgcombocard.pdf
shows:
TX RX
802.11a 520ma 310ma
802.11b/g 600ma 330ma
Multiply by 3.3VDC to get milliwatts dissipation.

Ah, finally found one that specified the power in standby mode:
http://www.webpro.com.tw/pro_card_pcmcia.htm
TX RX
Operating 460ma 410ma
Power Save 22ma
Standby 7ma

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

Bernie
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:16 am Post subject: Re: test

MCheu wrote:

Quote:

On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 18:11:27 -0500, Bernie <Urt@BunnyBuns.com> wrote:

According to an electronics sales person, Windows allows for the disabling
of Wi-Fi cards, which ensures that it draws no power. I suspect that as
long as the card is inserted, there will always be some power, and the most
sure way of eliminating power drainage is remove the card.

Is the power difference between disabling and removing a card neglegible?
What about the ease with which disabling can be done from Windows 2000?
Is it a pain, or is there a system tray item to do this?

Is there a difference in power consumption between cards for 802.11b and
802.11g? Or is the difference overshadowed by power differences between
card models for the same standard, or between different manufacturers for
the same standard?

With that stupid subject header, you're not likely to get many
replies. It's likely to get caught in a spam filter.

Dear idiot,

Before you start bandying around blistering insults like "stupid"
(brilliant, Einstein), I suggest
you get away from the computer and get a life. You are responding to a
posting to a TEST group.
Why you responded at all is beyond comprehension. Now pull your foot
out of your mouth and
try to keep away from the web until you're sober. There are other ways
to feel good about
yourself than to try to log lame-assed commentary at a test group
posting (and sending to nontest
groups for extra fame, you moron).

Bernie

Jeff Liebermann
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:47 am Post subject: Re: test

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 00:16:12 -0500, Bernie <Urt@BunnyBuns.com> wrote:

Quote:

Before you start bandying around blistering insults like "stupid"
(brilliant, Einstein), I suggest
you get away from the computer and get a life. You are responding to a
posting to a TEST group.

From the header:

Quote:

From: Bernie <Urt@BunnyBuns.com
Newsgroups: alt.internet.wireless,comp.sys.laptops
Subject: test
No test group in sight. Methinks operator error. Normally, I would

suggest you apologize but I would be satisfied if you simply destroyed
your own computah or at least learned to operate a newsreader.

Ugh:

Quote:

X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U)
That's really old and buggy. If you won't destroy your computer, the

least you could do is upgrade to the latest Mozilla, Thunderbird, or
Forte Agent.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

Bernie
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:21 am Post subject: Re: test

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Quote:

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 00:16:12 -0500, Bernie <Urt@BunnyBuns.com> wrote:

Before you start bandying around blistering insults like "stupid"
(brilliant, Einstein), I suggest
you get away from the computer and get a life. You are responding to a
posting to a TEST group.

From the header:
From: Bernie <Urt@BunnyBuns.com
Newsgroups: alt.internet.wireless,comp.sys.laptops
Subject: test
No test group in sight. Methinks operator error. Normally, I would
suggest you apologize but I would be satisfied if you simply destroyed
your own computah or at least learned to operate a newsreader.

Ugh:
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U)
That's really old and buggy. If you won't destroy your computer, the
least you could do is upgrade to the latest Mozilla, Thunderbird, or
Forte Agent.

If my response was off-base, then I will certainly apologize. I suspect
that what happened was that I test-posted to a test group, then posted here
without changing the subject, then cancelled it. Some news servers do not
honour cancel requests. I am not sure how that shows up when the thread is
viewed threaded newsreaders. Does the cancellation notice show up? If so,
then I believe it was presumptuous to launch into a denigrative post without
reading the follow-ups to a thread (and thus seeing the cancellation), and
my response is not off-base. If the cancellation doesn't show up, then the
misunderstanding is due to the nonhonouring of cancellations by the
servers, along with my own erroneous posting prior to cancelling it. In
that case, I will apologize. Thank you for letting me know how it shows
up.

Bernie

MCheu
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:55 pm Post subject: Re: test

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 00:16:12 -0500, Bernie <Urt@BunnyBuns.com> wrote:

Quote:

MCheu wrote:

On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 18:11:27 -0500, Bernie <Urt@BunnyBuns.com> wrote:

According to an electronics sales person, Windows allows for the disabling
of Wi-Fi cards, which ensures that it draws no power. I suspect that as
long as the card is inserted, there will always be some power, and the most
sure way of eliminating power drainage is remove the card.

Is the power difference between disabling and removing a card neglegible?
What about the ease with which disabling can be done from Windows 2000?
Is it a pain, or is there a system tray item to do this?

Is there a difference in power consumption between cards for 802.11b and
802.11g? Or is the difference overshadowed by power differences between
card models for the same standard, or between different manufacturers for
the same standard?

With that stupid subject header, you're not likely to get many
replies. It's likely to get caught in a spam filter.

Dear idiot,

Before you start bandying around blistering insults like "stupid"
(brilliant, Einstein), I suggest
you get away from the computer and get a life. You are responding to a
posting to a TEST group.
Why you responded at all is beyond comprehension. Now pull your foot
out of your mouth and
try to keep away from the web until you're sober. There are other ways
to feel good about
yourself than to try to log lame-assed commentary at a test group
posting (and sending to nontest
groups for extra fame, you moron).

Bernie

Bernie,

I believe you owe me an apology. First for the flaming insults, and
second for accusing me of something I didn't do.

1. I didn't say you were stupid. I said the subject header was
stupid. It's a very bad choice because, as I mentioned, 'TEST' is
likely to be caught in a spam/kill filter and not be seen by too many
people. If it's your favorite subject header --- fine, go ahead, use
it.

2. You didn't post this in a TEST group. News header says you posted
in alt.internet.wireless, and comp.sys.laptops. YOU posted this
message in these groups under that header, not me, so don't go blaming
me for it.

3. I actually did give you a legitimate answer to your question. You
snipped it, but I did give you a real answer. If I was actually out
to get you, do you really think I'd bother to do that?

---------------------------------------------

MCheu

Bernie
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:02 pm Post subject: Re: test

MCheu wrote:

Quote:

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 00:16:12 -0500, Bernie <Urt@BunnyBuns.com> wrote:

MCheu wrote:

On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 18:11:27 -0500, Bernie <Urt@BunnyBuns.com> wrote:

According to an electronics sales person, Windows allows for the disabling
of Wi-Fi cards, which ensures that it draws no power. I suspect that as
long as the card is inserted, there will always be some power, and the
most sure way of eliminating power drainage is remove the card.

Is the power difference between disabling and removing a card neglegible?
What about the ease with which disabling can be done from Windows 2000?
Is it a pain, or is there a system tray item to do this?

Is there a difference in power consumption between cards for 802.11b and
802.11g? Or is the difference overshadowed by power differences between
card models for the same standard, or between different manufacturers for
the same standard?

With that stupid subject header, you're not likely to get many replies.
It's likely to get caught in a spam filter.

Dear idiot,

Before you start bandying around blistering insults like "stupid"
(brilliant, Einstein), I suggest you get away from the computer and get a
life. You are responding to a posting to a TEST group. Why you responded
at all is beyond comprehension. Now pull your foot out of your mouth and
try to keep away from the web until you're sober. There are other ways to
feel good about yourself than to try to log lame-assed commentary at a test
group posting (and sending to nontest groups for extra fame, you moron).

Bernie,

I believe you owe me an apology. First for the flaming insults, and
second for accusing me of something I didn't do.

1. I didn't say you were stupid. I said the subject header was
stupid. It's a very bad choice because, as I mentioned, 'TEST' is
likely to be caught in a spam/kill filter and not be seen by too many
people. If it's your favorite subject header --- fine, go ahead, use
it.

2. You didn't post this in a TEST group. News header says you posted
in alt.internet.wireless, and comp.sys.laptops. YOU posted this
message in these groups under that header, not me, so don't go blaming
me for it.

3. I actually did give you a legitimate answer to your question. You
snipped it, but I did give you a real answer. If I was actually out
to get you, do you really think I'd bother to do that?
---------------------------------------------
MCheu

MCheu,

I apologize for assuming that you were responding to a test group posting.
Please note that my news server honours cancellations, so as far as I
could see, the post to which you were responding did not exist. Hence my
mistaken assumption.

However, I have issue with your manners, or lack thereof.

You seem to have ignored a key point in this thread. Does my cancellation for
said post appear in your threaded newsreader? If it does, then your snyde
remark is off base. Let's not bandy around this esoteric game of whether you
called my (assumed) actions stupid, or me stupid.

But let's assume that you didn't see such a cancellation notice either due to
its absence, or a mere oversight on your part. Why would anyone assume that a
legitimate post would be made with the title of "test"? I mean, isn't it
obvious? This is ignoring the fact that there are blatant clues, such as an
almost simultaneous post with a more telling subject line, with exactly the
same body. Don't you check these things before firing off an insult? Or don't
you think snyde comments are a big enough of a big deal to warrant the effort?

Even ignoring all of that, what on earth prompted you to take the low road when
you could very easily have said something to the effect of

Not sure if your post was a mistake, but if it is a test, it belongs at.....
If it isn't a test, then here's my 2 cents worth.

Of course, you alone choose how you conduct yourself in public. However,
if you choose to act like a dufus (notice how I didn't call you a dufus,
just your behaviour), then expect to be responded to in kind.

As for your help, if you have such a chip on your shoulder that you will take
any opportunity to act in a dufus-like manner, then you know exactly what you
can do with your advice.

Bernie

Mojo
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:13 pm Post subject: Re: test

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 01:21:32 -0500, Bernie <Urt@BunnyBuns.com> said:

Quote:

snipped
If so, then I believe
snip

Usenet Confucius, he say: "When in deep hole, Glasshoppah -- stop
digging."

HTH.

--
Mojo.

Bernie
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:56 pm Post subject: Re: test

Mojo wrote:

Quote:

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 01:21:32 -0500, Bernie <Urt@BunnyBuns.com> said:

snipped
If so, then I believe
snip

Usenet Confucius, he say: "When in deep hole, Glasshoppah -- stop
digging."

HTH.

I'm sure there is a point to this article...somewhere...

Jack Pedly
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 2:57 pm Post subject: Re: test

In article <41E26EB8.25B37C75@BunnyBuns.com>, Urt@BunnyBuns.com says...

Quote:

""Before you start bandying around blistering insults like "stupid"
(brilliant, Einstein)""

Bernie
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:22 am Post subject: Re: test

Jack Pedly wrote:

Quote:

HaHaHaHa Bernie Baby - YOU HAVE REMOVED ALL DOUBT!!!
""Before you start bandying around blistering insults like "stupid"
(brilliant, Einstein)""

Irked, Jack? Interesting posting history you have.

Bernie

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