| Author |
Message |
DevilsPGD
Guest
|
 Posted:
Mon Nov 14, 2005 2:03 am Post subject:
Re: Please don't hate SONY for their one mistake with DRM pr |
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|
In message <48sen110re3eed20jrt09vpd7u0279qjog@4ax.com> Aratzio
<a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 03:17:28 -0700, DevilsPGD <spamsucks@crazyhat.net
got double secret probation because:
The CD side has already successfully crippled Sony's consumer audio
devices by preventing hardware-side MP3 support.
QUE?
Sony DVD & CD players play MP3. Whether it is by hardware or software
there is, to the general consumer, no visible difference.
|
It's not that simple... Sony requires your computer to convert the MP3
file to their own format before a device can handle it.
| Quote: | What makes you think that the music side wouldn't be able to get upper
management to shoot the computer accessory department in the foot too?
Most companies outsource the low end consumer products to contract
manufacturers. They do not actually design the hardware or the
firmware. I am sure at additional cost some modification to the
firmware could be added. But the CM would charge, be assured. Not
something you want when margins on low end devices are so slim.
|
You're thinking backwards -- Sony wouldn't go looking for a device that
they could add copyright support, they would simply include their
malware into the original design specifications and look for the
cheapest vendor that meets the design specs.
--
The preceding post may have contained foul language,
and should not have been read by young children. |
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Peter Hayes
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 14, 2005 2:30 am Post subject:
Re: Please don't hate SONY for their one mistake with DRM pr |
|
|
Kleuskes & Moos <kleuske@xs4all.nl> wrote:
| Quote: | Bob schreef:
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 17:08:46 GMT, kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:
for example you could make your
LIteon drive read that it was from Taco Bell instead of Sony
Then it would work properly.
Sony may also remove Riplock.
--
BOYCOTT SONY!
SONY IS TRYING TO TAKE OVER YOUR COMPUTER!
HOMELAND SECURITY TOLD SONY TO CEASE AND DESIST!
|
Cite?
| Quote: | YOU DO THE SAME - BOYCOTT SONY!
Keep your pants on. The fact that thay made s toopid mistake has
allready sunk in.
|
ROTFL.
Their so-called "uninstall" procedure would suggest otherwise.
--
Peter |
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kony
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 14, 2005 2:34 am Post subject:
Re: Please don't hate SONY for their one mistake with DRM pr |
|
|
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 13:03:07 -0700, DevilsPGD
<spamsucks@crazyhat.net> wrote:
| Quote: | You're thinking backwards -- Sony wouldn't go looking for a device that
they could add copyright support, they would simply include their
malware into the original design specifications and look for the
cheapest vendor that meets the design specs.
|
In theory they could, but in practice they have not so far,
do not "have" any original design specs that were followed,
merely buying standard product and rebadging it. Separate
design and production is bound to cost more, decreasing the
already thin profits in a market where fewer and fewer are
as willing to pay the premium Sony formerly tried to charge
for their products. IN other words the result would be a
more costly product that is less desirable... not a very
good product strategy unless they tried bundling with
content, which might appeal more to certain market segments
but even OEMs have tended towards Liteon (if not LG or some
other) rather than Sony-marked-up Liteons. |
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kony
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 14, 2005 2:39 am Post subject:
Re: Please don't hate SONY for their one mistake with DRM pr |
|
|
On 13 Nov 2005 10:50:54 -0800, "Kleuskes & Moos"
<kleuske@xs4all.nl> wrote:
| Quote: | Keep your pants on. The fact that thay made s toopid mistake has
allready sunk in.
|
Only if you ignore their proprietar media players, memory
sticks, minidiscs, Betamax, etc. |
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Alan S
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 14, 2005 2:40 am Post subject:
Re: Please don't hate SONY for their one mistake with DRM pr |
|
|
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 17:08:46 GMT, kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Currently there is reason to believe the Sony badged players
won't have "specific code", because so far, Sony has not
written any firmware.
|
You are probably correct in the conclusion but I don't understand the
reasoning. Sony itself needn't write firmware. It can be outsourced or
written by the hardware manufacturer according to Sony's directives or
requirements. The rootkit wasn't written by Sony itself but by a third
party for Sony. |
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Lola Stonewall Riot
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:18 am Post subject:
Re: Please don't hate SONY for their one mistake with DRM pr |
|
|
Eris Kallisti Discordia was laughing at the antics of The Ghost In The
Machine, when they suddenly burst out in tears, saying:
| Quote: | In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Bob wrote
on Fri, 11 Nov 2005 17:51:06 GMT
On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 16:28:03 GMT, Aratzio wrote:
Google is you friend.
So is Websters Online.
So point out which word was spelled incorrectly, typo lamer?
Find it yourself, fuckwit.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fuckwit
* * *
No entry found for fuckwit.
Did you mean _fuck wit_?
Suggestions:
fuck wit
fuck-wit
fucked
chickwit
fucoid
figwort
Forewit
Fucate
Kuwait
Foucquet
duckweed
fuckhead
fumewort
Fig wart
Forwot
fig wart
fuguist
fugacity
Forewite
Foucault
fur coat
fork out
No entry was found in the dictionary. Would you like to _search the Web_
for fuckwit?
For better results, try our _search tips_.
* * *
(snort)
|
Bloody American dictionary sites.
;-{P}
--
____________________________________________________________________________
Hail Eris! Flonk Leader #2 & #11 1/9
The Discordian People's Most Powerful and Revered Being (without portfolio)
"Laws count, the US Constitution count more, and we need to have judges on
the bench who are going to Carry Out those laws, not Make Law or Interpret
Law." -- John "Easily" Shocked contradicts his own words on the overriding
importance of society's reluctance to accept homosexuality, in Message-ID:
<brIDe.67062$Qo.12613@fed1read01>
"For the most part, morality is universal." -- John "Easily" Shocked
"Bad stories are bad stories. We just call them as they are." -- DBurns
demonstrates his sheer cluelessness on Mar 9, 2002, at 6:25 pm, in
rec.arts.drwho
"Bernadette, you ignorant oaf.
Bernadette, you brainless dullard.
Bernadette, you feeble-minded wag.
Bernadette, you blathering baboon.
Bernadette, you babbling boor.
Bernadette, you depraved dolt.
Bernadette, you stinking slimeball.
Bernadette, you yammering yak.
Bernadette, you lily-livered lush.
Bernadette, you hard-hearted hulk."
-- Mother Be Strange gets very hard on herself, in
Message-ID: <94b6d5f1.0203221829.3587ccd3@posting.google.com>
"[Lurlean] would never dream of sleeping with a dog. The Bible's against
it. You don't seem to care what the Bible says, so she thought maybe you
gave that a try too -- in addition to sucking on Steve, letting him play
with your butt, and having seven different lesbian lovers in our bed." --
Sistah Moonshine shocks a.p.h. with the revelation that she got it off with
"Romaine Brooks", in Message-ID:
<1123725708.727936.326740@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
"I should have known my boss was evil when he called my jumping onto my
chair to praise the Lord out loud 'inappropriate behavior.'" -- Sistah
Moonshine: Oppressed Christian, in Message-ID:
<1123814023.215368.278430@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
"I made a pact with the devil." -- Sistah Moonshine, from her dream diary,
in Message-ID:
<1124074725.193526.58080@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
"'drink that hooch,' they would say, 'and then smoke that joint. Bury your
head in that strange woman's crotch and bring her to a thunderous climax
with your tongue, then tell her no man could ever give her that much
pleasure in a thousand years. Tell her to leave her husband and become a
lesbian. Drip hot wax on that pervert's nutty buddies and then charge him
extra for the privilege.'" -- Sistah Moonshine is now working on an erotic
epic to outmatch Anne Rice.
"Roe V Wade has zero bearing on my existence other than it affects it
adversely."
-- Johnny Wentzky never had much truck with "logic".
"You are the GOD-DAMNED, IGNORANT LIAR here.
Now, that is not me taking the Lord's name in vain."
-- John Wentzky: Living proof of the Death of Irony, in Message-ID:
<jljOe.5348$ZD4.3223@bignews3.bellsouth.net>
"This bandwidth has been rescued from AOL." -- mimus |
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kony
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:27 am Post subject:
Re: Please don't hate SONY for their one mistake with DRM pr |
|
|
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 20:40:22 GMT, Alan S
<AlanS222@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 17:08:46 GMT, kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:
Currently there is reason to believe the Sony badged players
won't have "specific code", because so far, Sony has not
written any firmware.
|
First off, the above should've read "... players WOULD have
"specific code".
| Quote: |
You are probably correct in the conclusion but I don't understand the
reasoning. Sony itself needn't write firmware.
|
True, but they would still need a very great research and
understanding of it to begin spec'ing changes for anyone
else.
| Quote: | It can be outsourced or
written by the hardware manufacturer according to Sony's directives or
requirements.
|
Can it? AFAIK, the firmware is not open source. Coming up
with something from scratch for a product that may have a
lifecycle in # of weeks, quarters at most, is a relatively
expensive proposition for devices selling at quite low price
points and within a highly competitive market.
Would you buy a Sony Firmware DRM'd drive for 20% more than
the same drive with unmolested firmware? Do you expect
anyone else would?
The rootkit wasn't written by Sony itself but by a third
>party for Sony. |
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|
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Bob
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:32 am Post subject:
Re: Please don't hate SONY for their one mistake with DRM pr |
|
|
On 13 Nov 2005 10:50:54 -0800, "Kleuskes & Moos" <kleuske@xs4all.nl>
wrote:
| Quote: | BOYCOTT SONY!
SONY IS TRYING TO TAKE OVER YOUR COMPUTER!
HOMELAND SECURITY TOLD SONY TO CEASE AND DESIST!
YOU DO THE SAME - BOYCOTT SONY!
Keep your pants on. The fact that thay made s toopid mistake has
allready sunk in.
|
You keep your pants on. The fact is they did far more than make a
mistake. And everyone needs to know it.
--
BOYCOTT SONY!
SONY IS TRYING TO TAKE OVER YOUR COMPUTER!
HOMELAND SECURITY TOLD SONY TO CEASE AND DESIST!
YOU DO THE SAME - BOYCOTT SONY! |
|
| Back to top |
|
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Bob
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:42 am Post subject:
Re: Please don't hate SONY for their one mistake with DRM pr |
|
|
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 20:30:24 +0000, not_in_use@btinternet.com (Peter
Hayes) wrote:
| Quote: | HOMELAND SECURITY TOLD SONY TO CEASE AND DESIST!
Cite?
|
Google-impaired? I found this with a simple search.
+++
© Copyright 1996-2005 The Washington Post Company
DHS Official Weighs In on Sony
By Brian Krebs
A high-ranking Bush administration official weighed in Thursday on
anti-piracy efforts domestically and abroad, indirectly chastising
Sony BMG Music Entertainment for its digital rights management (DRM)
software, which computer security analysis say uses tactics typically
employed by virus writers to hide its components and resist their
removal.
The reference to the scandal over Sony's anti-piracy software came at
a U.S. Chamber of Commerce-sponsored event in downtown Washington on
combating intellectual-property theft. At the event, Stewart Baker,
recently appointed by President Bush as the Department of Homeland
Security's assistant secretary for policy, made a comment that
suggested that some anti-piracy efforts introduced by the industry
could have profound and unexpected effects on the security of the
nation's critical infrastructures.
I wasn't at the conference, but a regular Security Fix reader who also
happens to be a reporter wrote in to say he attended the event and
that I might find it interesting given our coverage of the Sony DRM
fiasco. DHS declined to make Baker available for an interview, but the
Chamber of Commerce was kind enough to provide a Webcast of the event.
Seated on a panel that featured entertainment and technology
executives Mitch Bainwol, chairman and chief executive of the
Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA), as well as Susan
Mann, director of intellectual property policy for Microsoft, Baker
wrapped up his opening comments with the following admonition for the
industry:
"I wanted to raise one point of caution as we go forward, because we
are also responsible for maintaining the security of the information
infrastructure of the United States and making sure peoples' [and]
businesses' computers are secure. ... There's been a lot of publicity
recently about tactics used in pursuing protection for music and DVD
CDs in which questions have been raised about whether the protection
measures install hidden files on peoples' computers that even the
system administrators can’t find."
In a remark clearly aimed directly at Sony and other labels, Stewart
continued: "It's very important to remember that it's your
intellectual property -- it's not your computer. And in the pursuit of
protection of intellectual property, it's important not to defeat or
undermine the security measures that people need to adopt in these
days.
"If we have an avian flu outbreak here and it is even half as bad as
the 1918 flu, we will be enormously dependent on being able to get
remote access for a large number of people, and keeping the
infrastructure functioning is going to be a matter of life and death
and we take it very seriously."
+++
| Quote: | YOU DO THE SAME - BOYCOTT SONY!
Keep your pants on. The fact that thay made s toopid mistake has
allready sunk in.
ROTFL.
Their so-called "uninstall" procedure would suggest otherwise.
|
--
BOYCOTT SONY!
SONY IS TRYING TO TAKE OVER YOUR COMPUTER!
HOMELAND SECURITY TOLD SONY TO CEASE AND DESIST!
YOU DO THE SAME - BOYCOTT SONY! |
|
| Back to top |
|
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Bob
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:43 am Post subject:
Re: Please don't hate SONY for their one mistake with DRM pr |
|
|
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 20:39:11 GMT, kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Keep your pants on. The fact that thay made s toopid mistake has
allready sunk in.
Only if you ignore their proprietar media players, memory
sticks, minidiscs, Betamax, etc.
|
I suppose Jack the Ripper just made a stoopid mistake has also sunk
in.
--
BOYCOTT SONY!
SONY IS TRYING TO TAKE OVER YOUR COMPUTER!
HOMELAND SECURITY TOLD SONY TO CEASE AND DESIST!
YOU DO THE SAME - BOYCOTT SONY! |
|
| Back to top |
|
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Bob
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:46 am Post subject:
Re: Please don't hate SONY for their one mistake with DRM pr |
|
|
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 21:18:13 GMT, Lola Stonewall Riot
<popesnarky@meowmeowmeow.org> wrote:
I could have used "jammy sod" instead.
--
BOYCOTT SONY!
SONY IS TRYING TO TAKE OVER YOUR COMPUTER!
HOMELAND SECURITY TOLD SONY TO CEASE AND DESIST!
YOU DO THE SAME - BOYCOTT SONY! |
|
| Back to top |
|
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Aratzio
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:25 am Post subject:
Re: Please don't hate SONY for their one mistake with DRM pr |
|
|
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 13:03:07 -0700, DevilsPGD <spamsucks@crazyhat.net>
got double secret probation because:
| Quote: | In message <48sen110re3eed20jrt09vpd7u0279qjog@4ax.com> Aratzio
a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com> wrote:
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 03:17:28 -0700, DevilsPGD <spamsucks@crazyhat.net
got double secret probation because:
The CD side has already successfully crippled Sony's consumer audio
devices by preventing hardware-side MP3 support.
QUE?
Sony DVD & CD players play MP3. Whether it is by hardware or software
there is, to the general consumer, no visible difference.
It's not that simple... Sony requires your computer to convert the MP3
file to their own format before a device can handle it.
|
Umm, why does placing a mp3 disk in a sony DVD player work on my
stereo? Are you confusing "consumer audio devices" with computer
peripherals? Or are you talking about the Ipod type of marketing?
| Quote: |
What makes you think that the music side wouldn't be able to get upper
management to shoot the computer accessory department in the foot too?
Most companies outsource the low end consumer products to contract
manufacturers. They do not actually design the hardware or the
firmware. I am sure at additional cost some modification to the
firmware could be added. But the CM would charge, be assured. Not
something you want when margins on low end devices are so slim.
You're thinking backwards --
|
No, 25 years in the mfg & test business tells me I know exactly how
this works.
| Quote: | Sony wouldn't go looking for a device that
they could add copyright support, they would simply include their
malware into the original design specifications and look for the
cheapest vendor that meets the design specs.
|
Do you know how the low end works? The CM/OEM (ie LiteOn) is already
building their own product and then sells the product to Sony not the
other way round. The product exists and is not built to spec, simply
externally customized. There is no reason for Sony to expend money
redesigning product that is already built. This is the low end. Design
to specification is a costly process and is not economically viable at
the low end.
--
Pierre Salinger Hook, Line & Sinker - May, 2005
Hammer of Thor - July, 2005
David Formosa (aka ? the Platypus) on 10-22-2005
Message-Id: <slrndlk3ae.fc2.dformosa@dformosa.zeta.org.au>
"But it is not isolated AUK has a massive impact the rest of usenet."
http://www.tweaknet.info/aratzio.html |
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Aratzio
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:35 am Post subject:
Re: Please don't hate SONY for their one mistake with DRM pr |
|
|
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 20:40:22 GMT, Alan S <AlanS222@yahoo.com> got
double secret probation because:
| Quote: | On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 17:08:46 GMT, kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:
Currently there is reason to believe the Sony badged players
won't have "specific code", because so far, Sony has not
written any firmware.
You are probably correct in the conclusion but I don't understand the
reasoning. Sony itself needn't write firmware. It can be outsourced or
written by the hardware manufacturer according to Sony's directives or
requirements. The rootkit wasn't written by Sony itself but by a third
party for Sony.
|
*sigh*
Do you imagine the flash storing the firmware is infinite? That you
can just add code willy nilly to a device that you did not design and
do not manufacture? Do you imagine that the cost incurred by the
addition of custom code simply in the testing alone may wipe out the
slim margins involved in the resale of these products?
While the concept is feasible, the economics of the process would
preclude the inclusion of malware in the firmware. Unless ALL products
from all mfg include the malware the ones containing malware are not
going to sell. Hence there will never be hardware with malware as long
as they would cost more to mfg and buy.
IF Sony or their mfg could build a product cheaper that contained some
sort of DRM code cheaper than the existing products then there might
be some acceptance. But the idea that a DRM enabled burner could be
built at lest cost than the exact same device with out DRM is a bit of
a stretch.
--
Pierre Salinger Hook, Line & Sinker - May, 2005
Hammer of Thor - July, 2005
David Formosa (aka ? the Platypus) on 10-22-2005
Message-Id: <slrndlk3ae.fc2.dformosa@dformosa.zeta.org.au>
"But it is not isolated AUK has a massive impact the rest of usenet."
http://www.tweaknet.info/aratzio.html |
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Aratzio
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:41 am Post subject:
Re: Please don't hate SONY for their one mistake with DRM pr |
|
|
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 21:27:54 GMT, kony <spam@spam.com> got double
secret probation because:
| Quote: | On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 20:40:22 GMT, Alan S
AlanS222@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 17:08:46 GMT, kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:
Currently there is reason to believe the Sony badged players
won't have "specific code", because so far, Sony has not
written any firmware.
First off, the above should've read "... players WOULD have
"specific code".
You are probably correct in the conclusion but I don't understand the
reasoning. Sony itself needn't write firmware.
True, but they would still need a very great research and
understanding of it to begin spec'ing changes for anyone
else.
It can be outsourced or
written by the hardware manufacturer according to Sony's directives or
requirements.
Can it? AFAIK, the firmware is not open source. Coming up
with something from scratch for a product that may have a
lifecycle in # of weeks, quarters at most, is a relatively
expensive proposition for devices selling at quite low price
points and within a highly competitive market.
Would you buy a Sony Firmware DRM'd drive for 20% more than
the same drive with unmolested firmware? Do you expect
anyone else would?
The rootkit wasn't written by Sony itself but by a third
party for Sony.
|
I must protest that you are using my arguments prior to my using my
arguments. This is unacceptable and in the future I will be writing
new firmware to prevent this. It will take me a few weeks and the
product cycle will be over but that does not matter. I will have it
stopped.
--
Pierre Salinger Hook, Line & Sinker - May, 2005
Hammer of Thor - July, 2005
David Formosa (aka ? the Platypus) on 10-22-2005
Message-Id: <slrndlk3ae.fc2.dformosa@dformosa.zeta.org.au>
"But it is not isolated AUK has a massive impact the rest of usenet."
http://www.tweaknet.info/aratzio.html |
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Grand Moff Robert Buchana
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:48 am Post subject:
Re: Please don't hate SONY for their one mistake with DRM pr |
|
|
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 04:42:30 GMT, spam@uce.gov (Bob) posted something
accessible as news:4376c425.26405015@news-server.houston.rr.com in
alt.usenet.kooks, selections of which I respond to below:
| Quote: | On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 17:24:22 GMT, Grand Moff Robert Buchanan
rbuchanan@neubauten.org> wrote:
No offense, but what you don't know could fill a warehouse.
FOAD, prick.
You seem to have as much trouble coping with your own ignorance as you
do recieving criticism.
FOAD, prick.
|
Work that BI, asshole.
--
Robert Buchanan
Grand Moff of <http://www.robertbuchanan.name/>
Custodian of <http://del.icio.us/rbuchanan>
Master of Mindy (arf)
Quote of the week:
"Why would you think someone who is asexual sees "anything" as a "sex
object"? Your mail order bride wife, for instance, is probably a sexual
being based on the way you act about her. I asked if she liked the pole
and the hole, and yet you bring up "objectification". Talk about
projection..."
-Robert "Chicken Wrist" Wolfe, <11k6f6o45erfpe2@news.supernews.com> |
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