| Author |
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Alien
Guest
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 Posted:
Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:33 pm Post subject:
PCI vs. AGP 8x? |
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I want to buy a 256mb card, can anybody tell me if there is a
difference in performance between a PCI and AGP 8x card if they have
the same specs? |
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Batman or Superman
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:56 pm Post subject:
Re: PCI vs. AGP 8x? |
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Alien wrote:
| Quote: | I want to buy a 256mb card, can anybody tell me if there is a
difference in performance between a PCI and AGP 8x card if they have
the same specs?
Are you refering to PCI or PCI-Express? If you are refering to PCI, |
absolutely. The PCI bus is 33mhz, the AGP bus is 66mhz so AGP8X is
533mhz effective. If you are refering to PCI-Express, also yes. The
PCI-E bus is 75mhz so a PCI-E x16 slot can max out at 1350mhz effective.
Keep in mind that PCI-E hasn't been fully utilized yet by games but is
the best option for future proofing.
Am I Batman or Superman? I'm so confused. |
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The Outsider
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:49 pm Post subject:
Re: PCI vs. AGP 8x? |
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On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 10:56:13 -0500, Batman or Superman
<batmanorsuperman@thebatcaveorfortressofsolitude.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Are you refering to PCI or PCI-Express? If you are refering to PCI,
absolutely. The PCI bus is 33mhz, the AGP bus is 66mhz so AGP8X is
533mhz effective. If you are refering to PCI-Express, also yes. The
PCI-E bus is 75mhz so a PCI-E x16 slot can max out at 1350mhz effective.
Keep in mind that PCI-E hasn't been fully utilized yet by games but is
the best option for future proofing.
Am I Batman or Superman? I'm so confused.
|
PCI-E is 100mhz. |
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Batman or Superman
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:23 am Post subject:
Re: PCI vs. AGP 8x? |
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The Outsider wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 10:56:13 -0500, Batman or Superman
batmanorsuperman@thebatcaveorfortressofsolitude.net> wrote:
Are you refering to PCI or PCI-Express? If you are refering to PCI,
absolutely. The PCI bus is 33mhz, the AGP bus is 66mhz so AGP8X is
533mhz effective. If you are refering to PCI-Express, also yes. The
PCI-E bus is 75mhz so a PCI-E x16 slot can max out at 1350mhz effective.
Keep in mind that PCI-E hasn't been fully utilized yet by games but is
the best option for future proofing.
Am I Batman or Superman? I'm so confused.
PCI-E is 100mhz.
|
I stand corrected.
Am I Batman or Superman? I'm so confused. |
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J. Clarke
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:43 am Post subject:
Re: PCI vs. AGP 8x? |
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Batman or Superman wrote:
| Quote: | The Outsider wrote:
On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 10:56:13 -0500, Batman or Superman
batmanorsuperman@thebatcaveorfortressofsolitude.net> wrote:
Are you refering to PCI or PCI-Express? If you are refering to PCI,
absolutely. The PCI bus is 33mhz, the AGP bus is 66mhz so AGP8X is
533mhz effective. If you are refering to PCI-Express, also yes. The
PCI-E bus is 75mhz so a PCI-E x16 slot can max out at 1350mhz effective.
Keep in mind that PCI-E hasn't been fully utilized yet by games but is
the best option for future proofing.
Am I Batman or Superman? I'm so confused.
PCI-E is 100mhz.
I stand corrected.
|
Where are you getting these numbers? A PCI Express lane is clocked at 2.5
GHz.
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
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Danny Greaves
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 04, 2005 3:11 am Post subject:
Re: PCI vs. AGP 8x? |
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Batman or Superman wrote:
-- snip -- -- snip --
| Quote: | Am I Batman or Superman? I'm so confused.
|
Here take this, writes "my name is The Joker" on a card.
Put this card in your pocket so you don't get confused.
:) |
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tod
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 04, 2005 6:50 am Post subject:
Re: PCI vs. AGP 8x? |
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All the PCI slots on a motherboard share one bus.
AGP uses it's own bus.
"Alien" <Alien@hoveringoveryourhouse.org> wrote in message
news:ku0km1tpmtjqn2ar67ovcuje8js86pr8h1@4ax.com...
| Quote: | I want to buy a 256mb card, can anybody tell me if there is a
difference in performance between a PCI and AGP 8x card if they have
the same specs? |
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Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:08 am Post subject:
Re: PCI vs. AGP 8x? |
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Well, we seem to have gone off on our own little "thing" here. I think I
know what you're asking, and I think I know what you're wondering.... As
best I can tell you is, "IF" your CPU is an athlon XP NOT 64 bit, and at
least 1.8ghz or better, as mine is, an XP2500+, you are trying to decide to
jump to an athlon 64, or keep your current system and get an AGP card. Well,
we are stuck in a dillema. Do we shell out big bucks to jump to 64 bit? Or
stick with our 32 bit systems for a while longer? I decided to stick with my
2500+ <overclocked to between 1.9 and 2.2ghz, depending on my mood and what
I'm playing> And I just bought a Sapphire X800 GTO 8x agp with 256 meg of
ddr3 ram. It replaced a 9800 pro 128. I am MORE than satisfied with it, as
it boosted my gaming performance, and benchmarks by a ballpark average of
5000 points in aquamark3d and 3dmark 03. And, I can run D3 at 1280x1024 4xaa
@ high quality and get 55-70 fps and BF2 at a little lower resolution and
get between 60 and 90 fps. <haven't had the card long and I'm still playing
with resolution, refresh rates, quality settings etc etc.
I'm not ready to pluck down $600 for a mobo, cpu and video card, and windows
XP64 for a few pfs.....
I'm not really sure if this helps you, but, if this answers your question,
thats good. Everyone else went off on a techno band...... It is so
frustrating because everyone came out with new technology, and, it requires
us to totally rebuild our rigs, and, we're not even sure what's gonna stick
around, whats gonna bomb, what is really best, etc etc etc. I read
MaximumPC, and I read they built a dual EVERYTHING PC. dual dual core
processors, 4gb of ram, 4 TB of disk space, dual 7800 GT video cards in SLI,
the rig cost about $12,700 and change.....
But, alot of games and programs are not written for dual cpu's, let alone
dual core cpu's yet.... so, there is such a thing as overkill when it comes
to upgrading your system. I dont think they've come out with a 64 bit
edition for BF2, D3, Q4.... get where I'm going? Good luck bud. Check out
that card, I think you'll be happy with it. I know I am :)
--
{SFU} Jackyl
MSI K7N2 Delta ILSR
Athlon XP2500
ATI Radeon X800 GTO 256
1gb Geil DDR 3200 DC
"Batman or Superman" <batmanorsuperman@thebatcaveorfortressofsolitude.net>
wrote in message news:RO2dne9-s4Rhr_fenZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d@rogers.com...
| Quote: | Alien wrote:
I want to buy a 256mb card, can anybody tell me if there is a
difference in performance between a PCI and AGP 8x card if they have
the same specs?
Are you refering to PCI or PCI-Express? If you are refering to PCI,
absolutely. The PCI bus is 33mhz, the AGP bus is 66mhz so AGP8X is 533mhz
effective. If you are refering to PCI-Express, also yes. The PCI-E bus is
75mhz so a PCI-E x16 slot can max out at 1350mhz effective. Keep in mind
that PCI-E hasn't been fully utilized yet by games but is the best option
for future proofing.
Am I Batman or Superman? I'm so confused. |
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The Outsider
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 05, 2005 3:58 am Post subject:
Re: PCI vs. AGP 8x? |
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On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 13:43:25 -0500, "J. Clarke"
<jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid> wrote:
| Quote: | Where are you getting these numbers? A PCI Express lane is clocked at 2.5
GHz.
|
That is throughput, and it is "A single lane is capable of
transmitting 2.5Gbps in each direction, simultaneously."
http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/hardware/pcie.ars/5
I'm talking bus speed and my mb's bios tells me it is running at
100mhz, that's how I know.
PCI = 33mhz
AGP = 66mhz
PCI-E = 100mhz |
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J. Clarke
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 05, 2005 5:51 am Post subject:
Re: PCI vs. AGP 8x? |
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The Outsider wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 13:43:25 -0500, "J. Clarke"
jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid> wrote:
Where are you getting these numbers? A PCI Express lane is clocked at 2.5
GHz.
That is throughput, and it is "A single lane is capable of
transmitting 2.5Gbps in each direction, simultaneously."
http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/hardware/pcie.ars/5
I'm talking bus speed and my mb's bios tells me it is running at
100mhz, that's how I know.
PCI = 33mhz
AGP = 66mhz
PCI-E = 100mhz
|
If Ars Technica is claiming that for throughput Ars Technica is in
error--the clock speed is 2.5 GHz, the encoding is 8/10B so you get 80% of
that, or 2 Gb/sec.
PCI Express is not a bus in the conventional sense, it is point-to-point and
serial--each lane is two pairs, one transmit and one receive, and each
running on a 2 GHz clock. If it was running at 100 MHz then it would have
less throughput than Fast Ethernet.
If your motherboard is reporting 100 MHz for PCI Express then it's reporting
something other than the lane clocking, probably the clocking of the
parallel bus going into the bridge.
Take a look at <http://www.intel.com/technology/pciexpress/devnet/> and
<http://zone.ni.com/devzone/conceptd.nsf/webmain/605EFE8126ED4DB686257014006BC124>.
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
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CguLL
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 05, 2005 7:49 am Post subject:
Re: PCI vs. AGP 8x? |
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On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 18:51:14 -0500, "J. Clarke"
<jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid> wrote:
| Quote: | If Ars Technica is claiming that <snip
|
They're not. It corroberates precisely what you say. If necessarily
lengthy, it is a well written article which explains PCI evolution and
PCIe operation in an interesting, clear and easy to follow manner.
"A link that's composed of a single lane is called an x1 link; a link
composed of two lanes is called an x2 link; a link composed of four
lanes is called an x4 link, etc. PCIe supports x1, x2, x4, x8, x12,
x16, and x32 link widths.
PCIe's bandwidth gains over PCI are considerable. A single lane is
capable of transmitting 2.5Gbps in each direction, simultaneously. Add
two lanes together to form an x2 link and you've got 5 Gbps, and so on
with each link width."
Copyright © 1998-2005 Ars Technica, LLC
Really thanks to all involved in this discussion. As a consequence of
it I'm now far better informed of the FACTs re PCIe myself. |
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The Outsider
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:26 am Post subject:
Re: PCI vs. AGP 8x? |
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On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 18:51:14 -0500, "J. Clarke"
<jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid> wrote:
| Quote: | If your motherboard is reporting 100 MHz for PCI Express then it's reporting
something other than the lane clocking, probably the clocking of the
parallel bus going into the bridge.
|
What's this article talking about then?
http://www.nbsgaming.com/PCIEBus.html
The other day while scouring my bios for some random item I found a
rather nostalgic setting that took me back to the good old days when I
used an AGP video card. This setting was the PCI-E bus frequency. In
this little menu you have the option of taking your standard 100 MHz
PCI-E bus and increasing it to upwards of 145 MHz... |
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J. Clarke
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 05, 2005 4:32 pm Post subject:
Re: PCI vs. AGP 8x? |
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The Outsider wrote:
| Quote: | On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 18:51:14 -0500, "J. Clarke"
jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid> wrote:
If your motherboard is reporting 100 MHz for PCI Express then it's
reporting something other than the lane clocking, probably the clocking of
the parallel bus going into the bridge.
What's this article talking about then?
http://www.nbsgaming.com/PCIEBus.html
The other day while scouring my bios for some random item I found a
rather nostalgic setting that took me back to the good old days when I
used an AGP video card. This setting was the PCI-E bus frequency. In
this little menu you have the option of taking your standard 100 MHz
PCI-E bus and increasing it to upwards of 145 MHz...
|
What part of "probably the clocking of the parallel bus going into the
bridge" did you have trouble with?
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
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The Outsider
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 05, 2005 7:32 pm Post subject:
Re: PCI vs. AGP 8x? |
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On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 05:32:12 -0500, "J. Clarke"
<jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid> wrote:
| Quote: | What part of "probably the clocking of the parallel bus going into the
bridge" did you have trouble with?
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"Probably" isn't conclusive. That's the problem I have with it.
Provide some hard data. |
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J. Clarke
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:16 pm Post subject:
Re: PCI vs. AGP 8x? |
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The Outsider wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 05:32:12 -0500, "J. Clarke"
jclarke.usenet@snet.net.invalid> wrote:
What part of "probably the clocking of the parallel bus going into the
bridge" did you have trouble with?
"Probably" isn't conclusive. That's the problem I have with it.
Provide some hard data.
|
The "hard data" is that PCI Express moves 2 billion bits per second on a
single pair with a 2.5 GHz clock and 8/10B encoding. Every technical
discussion of PCI express by any company that actually makes the chips that
support it explains this.
Whatever is clocked at 100 MHz on the nforce4 chipset is not the PCI Express
lanes unless _you_ can explain how they get 2 billion bits per second on a
single pair with a 100 MHz clock and 8/10B encoding and why Intel and
National Instruments and the rest are wrong and some random overclocker is
right.
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
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