| Author |
Message |
Bob Headrick
Guest
|
 Posted:
Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:25 am Post subject:
Re: Epson printers are electronic theieves |
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|
"Davy" <davecoe@blueyonder.co-dot-uk.no-spam.invalid> wrote in message
news:YUw3f.168381$XF5.99196@fe02.news.easynews.com...
| Quote: | quote="Bob Headrick
they recirculate the ink uses for purges back into the supply.
They just gotta keep all the ink colours well and truely seperated to
do this.
|
Which they do by design.
Regards,
Bob Headrick, MS MVP Printing/Imaging |
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Arthur Entlich
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:45 pm Post subject:
Re: Epson printers are electronic theieves |
|
|
This is contrary to everything I know about warranty legislation, but
"jolly ol' England" may have it's own odd notions, I suppose.
I will bow out of this discussion and allow others who live in the UK to
enter into it, as I'm sure they either are more knowledgeable, or have
easier access to the legislation than I do here in Canada.
Could someone who lives in England please research as to whether
warranties are typically or legislated to be transferred to a product
when it is an exchange provided by the manufacturer or his official
agent for the balance of the warranty period not yet used? I find the
concept of the warranty dying with a product exchange absurd, but who
knows, it wouldn't be the first time absurd concepts were law.
I am beginning to suspect the Epson service depot you went to was not
really fully authorized by Epson.
Art
Davy wrote:
| Quote: | Arthur Entlichwrote:
quote="Arthur Entlich"] but the left over portion moves
to the replacement product.
Not according to Epson it don't - I enquired.
I did say in the post that the warranty could not be transfered to the
replacement..?
There is no reason at all for me to say it couldn't without enquiring,
to say otherwise would be incorrect.
The warranty could not be transfered nor would they give me a warranty
of the replacement - "Not my words Art", but those of Epson UK...!
Davy
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Arthur Entlich
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:04 pm Post subject:
Re: Epson printers are electronic theieves |
|
|
OK, it's about time for some official Epson commentary.
I am going to email Epson UK as soon as you clarify what happened to
you, so I can get clarification from them.
Please correct me if I have any information incorrect:
1) You purchased a new Epson printer (what model again?) through
legitimate standard retail channels (not OEM) and it came with a one
year warranty. Did you need to register the printer for the warranty to
be validated?
2) This printer clogged (when was that relative to your purchase date),
or otherwise was substandard, so you contacted Epson and they told you
to go to an authorized Epson service depot. You went to this Epson
authorized depot, as suggested by Epson, within the warranty period, and
the depot indicated the printer was either not repairable, or they were
unwilling to repair it, and instead they gave you a replacement
refurbished printer.
3) The refurbished printer "clogged" within the original 12 month
warranty period, and then you were told by Epson that this second
printer had no warranty connected to it, and they would not service or
replace the printer a second time.
Is that the whole story, and is the sequence of events correct? If not,
please correct the details and I will try to pursue this with Epson UK
to get to the bottom of what the procedure and service should have been.
I will then report back to the list once I get a reply from Epson, but
first please indicate any changes in this sequence to make it accurate.
Art
Davy wrote:
| Quote: | Arthur Entlichwrote:
quote="Arthur Entlich"]This is against the law in the US and Canada.
The replacement product
must maintain the balance of the warranty OR some amount, often 90
days,
which ever is LONGEST. Perhaps you misunderstood the warranty
working.
Art
Can't see how there was any misunderstanding, I registered the
warrenty etc etc, clearly 12 months at no time was I ever told the
warrenty had changed.
You buy something it breaks down in 12 months they either repair it or
replace it - they replaced it with what I understand NOW is a referb
unit which they would 'clearly' not entertain, needless to say the
warranty would not be transfered nor any warranty given....!
There just could not be any mis understanding it is as clear as
daylight.
Maybe they know they'er cloggers and want to avoid the hassle ...!
Davy
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me@privacy.net
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:06 pm Post subject:
Re: Epson printers are electronic theieves |
|
|
In message <nhL4f.223845$tl2.98555@pd7tw3no>, Arthur Entlich
<e-printerhelp@mvps.org> writes
| Quote: | This is contrary to everything I know about warranty legislation, but
"jolly ol' England" may have it's own odd notions, I suppose.
I will bow out of this discussion and allow others who live in the UK
to enter into it, as I'm sure they either are more knowledgeable, or
have easier access to the legislation than I do here in Canada.
Could someone who lives in England please research as to whether
warranties are typically or legislated to be transferred to a product
when it is an exchange provided by the manufacturer or his official
agent for the balance of the warranty period not yet used? I find the
concept of the warranty dying with a product exchange absurd, but who
knows, it wouldn't be the first time absurd concepts were law.
I am beginning to suspect the Epson service depot you went to was not
really fully authorized by Epson.
I reckon it should continue on to the replacement product (for a reduced |
number of months). However, on top of the guarantee we also have a Sale
of Goods Act saying that goods should be fit for purpose, part of which
is that they should last a reasonable[1] time.
[1] 'Reasonable' being one of these silly words that the court has to
decide upon its meaning in an individual case.
--
Timothy |
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ian lincoln
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:00 pm Post subject:
Re: Epson printers are electronic theieves |
|
|
"Dr. Dweeb" <NOSPAM_5msg0h202@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:434f7fe1$0$78282$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk...
| Quote: | Davy wrote:
quote="Dr. Dweeb
Interestingly, I have a Sony Mp3 player that died after 4 months.
Sony fixed it (at least I got the same unit back in working order),
but the warranty is now 3 months on repairs.
Wait - after 3 months, the thing is still just 7 months old.
It seem that perhaps this is SOP for companies generally. ?
Glad someone can see my POV
But Sony of all people I am surprised, if this is a 'Sony Service
Centre' I would check with Sony HQ..! The item should be covered by
Sony warrenty and not the Service Centre's which could be an entirely
different company from Sony.
Unknown. It was Sony in Holland who fixed it. The Dixons guy said it was
3 mth warranty on repairs. I hope it keeps going forever and I never need
to find out the real story :-)
|
Ah Dixons. That explains everything. I wouldn't hold Sony accountable but
dixons. |
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ian lincoln
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:07 pm Post subject:
Re: Epson printers are electronic theieves |
|
|
"Arthur Entlich" <e-printerhelp@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:nhL4f.223845$tl2.98555@pd7tw3no...
| Quote: | This is contrary to everything I know about warranty legislation, but
"jolly ol' England" may have it's own odd notions, I suppose.
I will bow out of this discussion and allow others who live in the UK to
enter into it, as I'm sure they either are more knowledgeable, or have
easier access to the legislation than I do here in Canada.
Could someone who lives in England please research as to whether
warranties are typically or legislated to be transferred to a product when
it is an exchange provided by the manufacturer or his official agent for
the balance of the warranty period not yet used? I find the concept of
the warranty dying with a product exchange absurd, but who knows, it
wouldn't be the first time absurd concepts were law.
I am beginning to suspect the Epson service depot you went to was not
really fully authorized by Epson.
Art
|
The product must be "fit for the purpose it was sold for" and it must do so
for no less than 1 year. In the EU it is two years. Some companies come
clean some don't. It is advised to purchase anything over £100 with a
credit card. The company is then jointly liable and if they can't get
satisfaction on your behalf then they themselves must cough up. |
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Davy
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:36 pm Post subject:
Re: Epson printers are electronic theieves |
|
|
| Quote: | Arthur Entlichwrote
quote="Arthur Entlich"] but
"jolly ol' England" may have it's own odd notions, I suppose
Darn right there Art, they cocked the BSE (mad cow disease) up and no |
the same gang are spouting about the bird flu...l..o..l............
saying 50,000 of us could go AWOL or feet pointing up here in the U
(couldn't resist that)
OK, best get back on topic...
I don't know what there status was, but something somewhere is totall
not right, obviously you can expect variations in regional policie
but nothing to that extent I would have thought
Dav |
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Arthur Entlich
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:06 pm Post subject:
Re: Epson printers are electronic theieves |
|
|
We have a similar act in our province here in Canada with similar
wording. It makes the retailer responsible for the products they sell,
and basically states that goods should perform for the purpose they are
advertised and sold for, and they should function for a "reasonable
time". That is defined as the amount of time, based upon the cost and
value of the item, and it's nature, that a "reasonable man" would assume
to expect of it. All very vague terms, but the Courts tend to be able
to sort it out when it goes on the skids.
In today's market, I would suspect an inkjet printer would be expected
to last 12-18 months. I consider this low, but others probably will not.
Regarding exchanges of warranty, here, the full leftover warranty is
expected to transfer to a replacement goods provided by the manufacturer
or his agent. However, in the case that a product is nearing the end of
it's warranty, should a repair or replacement be made, a reasonable
nominal warranty must be provided which might extend the warranty period
while the person determines that the repaired or replaced item is
satisfactory (usually 30-90 days beyond the original warranty).
Art
me@privacy.net wrote:
| Quote: | In message <nhL4f.223845$tl2.98555@pd7tw3no>, Arthur Entlich
e-printerhelp@mvps.org> writes
This is contrary to everything I know about warranty legislation, but
"jolly ol' England" may have it's own odd notions, I suppose.
I will bow out of this discussion and allow others who live in the UK
to enter into it, as I'm sure they either are more knowledgeable, or
have easier access to the legislation than I do here in Canada.
Could someone who lives in England please research as to whether
warranties are typically or legislated to be transferred to a product
when it is an exchange provided by the manufacturer or his official
agent for the balance of the warranty period not yet used? I find the
concept of the warranty dying with a product exchange absurd, but who
knows, it wouldn't be the first time absurd concepts were law.
I am beginning to suspect the Epson service depot you went to was not
really fully authorized by Epson.
I reckon it should continue on to the replacement product (for a reduced
number of months). However, on top of the guarantee we also have a Sale
of Goods Act saying that goods should be fit for purpose, part of which
is that they should last a reasonable[1] time.
[1] 'Reasonable' being one of these silly words that the court has to
decide upon its meaning in an individual case.
|
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Davy
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:38 pm Post subject:
Re: Epson printers are electronic theieves |
|
|
| Quote: | Arthur Entlichwrote
quote="Arthur Entlich"]OK, it's about time for some official Epso |
commentary
| Quote: |
I am going to email Epson UK as soon as you clarify what happened t
you, so I can get clarification from them
|
Oh not again....
I purchased a C62, it clogged on the 2nd day, I give it a nozzl
clean, it worked for quite a while, requiring the odd nozzle clea
which 'appeared to get more and more frequent until it looke
something similar to thos sample I sent you, initailly it began b
leaving odd coloured lines on plain text docuoment, these line wher
straight as if made by a ruler but was 'broken', i.e not continuous
Needless to say printing a text document was out, the pictures fro
memory consisted of a one inch yellow border to the left an
underneath the picture and black lines to the right of the picture
Epson was contacted I learned never to give more than 6 nozzle clean
or the heads would be damaged this coming from the Technica
department, customer services had me doing cleaning test's and the
I went through the proceedure again with the Technical Engineer, s
much so I almost wasted a brand new ink tank
Something like 6 months down the line the printer was exchanged by th
local Epson Centre, I got home and no documents was returned, th
replacement came in a plain box with Epson security labels and minu
instructions, warrenty and ink tanks
This replacement started top roduce exactly the same effects an
clogged on the 4th day, the samples that I sent you was done on thi
replacement printer, exactly the same lines, exactly the same colour
and exactly the same spot, from memory this printer lasted about
months, during this period the printer printed without flaws an
requiring the odd nozzle clean which gradually got worse until i
started showing the same effects as the first one
Like a stupid idiot I used Epson OEM inks...! More was wasted tha
actually went on paper
I again got onto Epson, again more cleans, so much so I was told t
take it to an Epson Centre and was told the warrnty could not b
transfered over nor was the replacement guaranteed and that I woul
have to pay
I then wrote two letter's of complaint to Epson UK, the only reply
got was from one letter, the letter that you have seen
I can not recall the dates nor the serial numbers of either, one o
them is in a hole in the ground where it best belongs...
I have no arguments Arthur with you even if you send all my post t
Epson, so I will take this opportunity in saying-
"If it clogs it'a an Epson" and as a special treat-
An ode to Epso
I bought a brand new printe
it gleams and shine at me
It prints such lovely photo
this Epson great for me
My digi-cam is bristlin
with happy memories
I'll do some prints so as to kee
to bring a smile or two
The first few prints looked so grea
the next few looked aghast
Off to the shop I ran and ra
to buy some new ink tanks
In they went with such great eas
I started to print again
I gaped in awe and wondered wh
the picture looked aghast
I did some cleaning cycle
til' my new inks tanks died
Off to the shop I ran agai
for new ink tanks to buy
I tried on phone to get some hel
I've even tried the net
My new and gleaming Epso
just sits and stairs at me
I tried and tried and tried agai
to get the darn thing go
I wasted many Epson tank
till all my cash ran low
I give the darn thing up at las
no prints from them there snaps
A load of wasted pape
and loads of empty tanks
dav |
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Davy
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:34 pm Post subject:
Re: Epson printers are electronic theieves |
|
|
Art Have a look here-:
http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/facts/salegoodsact.htm
It's far too large to paste here but if you feel I should do so I will
post under a new heading.
Snippets-:
Quote:
• Aspects of quality include fitness for purpose, freedom from minor
defects, appearance and finish, durability and safety.
• It is the seller, not the manufacturer, who is responsible if goods
do not conform to contract.
Q7. Do I have to produce a receipt to claim my rights?
No. In fact the trader doesn't have to give you a receipt in the first
place so it would be unfair to say that you had to produce one.
However, it might not be unreasonable for the shop to want some proof
of purchase, so look to see if you have a cheque stub, bank statement,
credit card slip etc., and this should be sufficient. Unquote:
Davy |
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measekite
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:11 pm Post subject:
Re: Epson printers are electronic theieves |
|
|
IT SOUNDS LIKE EPSON UK AND EPSON USA ARE TOTALLY DIFFERENT COMPANIES.
IT SEEMS THE PEOPLE WHO WORK AT EPSON UK HAVE CORKS UP THEIR ASS.
Davy wrote:
| Quote: | Arthur Entlichwrote:
quote="Arthur Entlich"]OK, it's about time for some official Epson
commentary.
I am going to email Epson UK as soon as you clarify what happened to
you, so I can get clarification from them.
Oh not again....!
I purchased a C62, it clogged on the 2nd day, I give it a nozzle
clean, it worked for quite a while, requiring the odd nozzle clean
which 'appeared to get more and more frequent until it looked
something similar to thos sample I sent you, initailly it began be
leaving odd coloured lines on plain text docuoment, these line where
straight as if made by a ruler but was 'broken', i.e not continuous.
Needless to say printing a text document was out, the pictures from
memory consisted of a one inch yellow border to the left and
underneath the picture and black lines to the right of the picture.
Epson was contacted I learned never to give more than 6 nozzle cleans
or the heads would be damaged this coming from the Technical
department, customer services had me doing cleaning test's and then
I went through the proceedure again with the Technical Engineer, so
much so I almost wasted a brand new ink tank.
Something like 6 months down the line the printer was exchanged by the
local Epson Centre, I got home and no documents was returned, the
replacement came in a plain box with Epson security labels and minus
instructions, warrenty and ink tanks.
This replacement started top roduce exactly the same effects and
clogged on the 4th day, the samples that I sent you was done on this
replacement printer, exactly the same lines, exactly the same colours
and exactly the same spot, from memory this printer lasted about 8
months, during this period the printer printed without flaws and
requiring the odd nozzle clean which gradually got worse until it
started showing the same effects as the first one.
Like a stupid idiot I used Epson OEM inks...! More was wasted than
actually went on paper.
I again got onto Epson, again more cleans, so much so I was told to
take it to an Epson Centre and was told the warrnty could not be
transfered over nor was the replacement guaranteed and that I would
have to pay.
I then wrote two letter's of complaint to Epson UK, the only reply I
got was from one letter, the letter that you have seen.
I can not recall the dates nor the serial numbers of either, one of
them is in a hole in the ground where it best belongs...!
I have no arguments Arthur with you even if you send all my post to
Epson, so I will take this opportunity in saying-:
"If it clogs it'a an Epson" and as a special treat-:
An ode to Epson
I bought a brand new printer
it gleams and shine at me.
It prints such lovely photos
this Epson great for me.
My digi-cam is bristling
with happy memories.
I'll do some prints so as to keep
to bring a smile or two.
The first few prints looked so great
the next few looked aghast.
Off to the shop I ran and ran
to buy some new ink tanks.
In they went with such great ease
I started to print again.
I gaped in awe and wondered why
the picture looked aghast.
I did some cleaning cycles
til' my new inks tanks died.
Off to the shop I ran again
for new ink tanks to buy.
I tried on phone to get some help
I've even tried the net.
My new and gleaming Epson
just sits and stairs at me.
I tried and tried and tried again
to get the darn thing go.
I wasted many Epson tanks
till all my cash ran low.
I give the darn thing up at last
no prints from them there snaps.
A load of wasted paper
and loads of empty tanks.
davy
|
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Davy
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:39 am Post subject:
Re: Epson printers are electronic theieves |
|
|
| Quote: | measekitewrote
[quote="measekite"]IT SOUNDS LIKE EPSON UK AND EPSON USA ARE TOTALL |
DIFFERENT COMPANIES.
| Quote: | IT SEEMS THE PEOPLE WHO WORK AT EPSON UK HAVE CORKS UP THEIR ***
|
Is that all...? How dya know that then...
Dav |
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Arthur Entlich
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:08 pm Post subject:
Re: Epson printers are electronic theieves |
|
|
OK, let's see if I have this correct...
| Quote: | Something like 6 months down the line the printer was exchanged by the
local Epson Centre,
|
So, the first printer lasted about 6 months before it was replaced by
Epson with a OEM or refurbished model.
| Quote: | from memory this printer lasted about 8
months, during this period the printer printed without flaws and
requiring the odd nozzle clean
|
The second unit lasted 8 months before it was brought to Epson's
attention as having problems.
Maybe my math is poor, but that's 6 plus 8 months, which comes to 14
months, making it 2 months out of warranty. If that's accurate, then
there is no surprise Epson didn't honor any warranty because, the
warranty has elapsed two months earlier. How long did you expect the
warranty to be?
Am I missing something here?
Art
Davy wrote:
| Quote: | Arthur Entlichwrote:
quote="Arthur Entlich"]OK, it's about time for some official Epson
commentary.
I am going to email Epson UK as soon as you clarify what happened to
you, so I can get clarification from them.
Oh not again....!
I purchased a C62, it clogged on the 2nd day, I give it a nozzle
clean, it worked for quite a while, requiring the odd nozzle clean
which 'appeared to get more and more frequent until it looked
something similar to thos sample I sent you, initailly it began be
leaving odd coloured lines on plain text docuoment, these line where
straight as if made by a ruler but was 'broken', i.e not continuous.
Needless to say printing a text document was out, the pictures from
memory consisted of a one inch yellow border to the left and
underneath the picture and black lines to the right of the picture.
Epson was contacted I learned never to give more than 6 nozzle cleans
or the heads would be damaged this coming from the Technical
department, customer services had me doing cleaning test's and then
I went through the proceedure again with the Technical Engineer, so
much so I almost wasted a brand new ink tank.
Something like 6 months down the line the printer was exchanged by the
local Epson Centre, I got home and no documents was returned, the
replacement came in a plain box with Epson security labels and minus
instructions, warrenty and ink tanks.
This replacement started top roduce exactly the same effects and
clogged on the 4th day, the samples that I sent you was done on this
replacement printer, exactly the same lines, exactly the same colours
and exactly the same spot, from memory this printer lasted about 8
months, during this period the printer printed without flaws and
requiring the odd nozzle clean which gradually got worse until it
started showing the same effects as the first one.
Like a stupid idiot I used Epson OEM inks...! More was wasted than
actually went on paper.
I again got onto Epson, again more cleans, so much so I was told to
take it to an Epson Centre and was told the warrnty could not be
transfered over nor was the replacement guaranteed and that I would
have to pay.
I then wrote two letter's of complaint to Epson UK, the only reply I
got was from one letter, the letter that you have seen.
I can not recall the dates nor the serial numbers of either, one of
them is in a hole in the ground where it best belongs...!
I have no arguments Arthur with you even if you send all my post to
Epson, so I will take this opportunity in saying-:
"If it clogs it'a an Epson" and as a special treat-:
An ode to Epson
I bought a brand new printer
it gleams and shine at me.
It prints such lovely photos
this Epson great for me.
My digi-cam is bristling
with happy memories.
I'll do some prints so as to keep
to bring a smile or two.
The first few prints looked so great
the next few looked aghast.
Off to the shop I ran and ran
to buy some new ink tanks.
In they went with such great ease
I started to print again.
I gaped in awe and wondered why
the picture looked aghast.
I did some cleaning cycles
til' my new inks tanks died.
Off to the shop I ran again
for new ink tanks to buy.
I tried on phone to get some help
I've even tried the net.
My new and gleaming Epson
just sits and stairs at me.
I tried and tried and tried again
to get the darn thing go.
I wasted many Epson tanks
till all my cash ran low.
I give the darn thing up at last
no prints from them there snaps.
A load of wasted paper
and loads of empty tanks.
davy
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Arthur Entlich
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:26 pm Post subject:
Re: Epson printers are electronic theieves |
|
|
Hi Davy,
I went to the source and read the full document. I appears to me
several things:
1) It's a pretty good law and pretty clear, and it protects consumers
quite well
2) You could have pursued this with the retailer (trader) from whom you
bought the printer, and according to the document, you still can
In this case your remedy would be a partial refund or repair.
Regarding the warranty with Epson, this document is not relevant at all,
as it has nothing to do with the manufacturer. Other laws likely apply.
However, unless I've misunderstood your recent posting, you got your
full warranty from Epson from the two printers.
You may still have a legal remedy with the original dealer, should you
wish to pursue it. The onus of proof after 6 months is placed upon you.
The length of the sale of goods action can be as long as 6 years in
the UK.
Art
Davy wrote:
| Quote: | Art Have a look here-:
http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/facts/salegoodsact.htm
It's far too large to paste here but if you feel I should do so I will
post under a new heading.
Snippets-:
Quote:
Aspects of quality include fitness for purpose, freedom from minor
defects, appearance and finish, durability and safety.
It is the seller, not the manufacturer, who is responsible if goods
do not conform to contract.
Q7. Do I have to produce a receipt to claim my rights?
No. In fact the trader doesn't have to give you a receipt in the first
place so it would be unfair to say that you had to produce one.
However, it might not be unreasonable for the shop to want some proof
of purchase, so look to see if you have a cheque stub, bank statement,
credit card slip etc., and this should be sufficient. Unquote:
Davy
|
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| Back to top |
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Davy
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:43 pm Post subject:
Re: Epson printers are electronic theieves |
|
|
| Quote: | Arthur Entlichwrote:
[quote="Arthur Entlich"]OK, let's see if I have this correct...OK, |
let's see if I have this correct...[/quote:ab37a14642]
Yep, that is correct I expected a 12 month warranty on the first
printer and I expected the warranty to be transferred over to the
exchanged printer at the 'least' , in which case I would have taken
it back and let them deal with the problem.
If the unit was out of warrenty I would have understood, yes I did say
6 months and 8 months 'it IS' quite clear I did NOT say 4 months and
7 months for example (yes I can add up), you will be aware that some
time was spent on trying to correct this problem my self prior to
joining this NG.
The unit was exchanged for one in a plain box with Epson security
tape, minus ink tanks (and also warrenty and instructions - but
forget these), does this sound like a factory referb unit.. and would
this carry any warrenty..?
When I enquired, ..."please note I said enquired", I was told that the
warranty could not be transferred over to the replacement printer, I
didn't
argue nor bother to ask why..? as if two printers went the same way
I'm pretty sure the third one is.
In the first instant prior to the exchange I asked if I could replace
the printer with a better model paying the extra, "no", came the
reply and I'm mighty glad I couldn't.
Davy |
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